01: The Why of Resilience, Play, and the Spiral of Stress
In this conversation, Olivia shares her journey through the stress of divorce and the adaptations she made to cope with the emotional turmoil. The discussion delves into the nature of stress, the importance of community support, and the complexities of emotional responsibility in relationships. The speakers explore the role of creativity in coping and the significance of connection in healing. Ultimately, the conversation emphasizes the resilience of the human spirit and the importance of self-discovery in the face of life's challenges.
takeaways
Divorce can be a freeing experience despite its stress.
Stress often builds up over time, leading to overwhelming feelings.
Community support is crucial during difficult times.
It's important to recognize and process physical manifestations of stress.
Adapting to change requires seeking help and resources.
Emotional responsibility can complicate relationship decisions.
Creativity can serve as a powerful coping mechanism.
Connection with others helps in understanding personal experiences.
Self-discovery is a vital part of healing and growth.
It's okay to express anger and frustration as part of the healing process.
titles
Navigating the Storm: A Journey Through Divorce
The Spiral of Stress: Understanding Emotional Turmoil
Sound Bites
"I feel like I'm constantly spiraling."
"Our brains search for answers."
"Your brain is amazing, right?"
Chapters
00:00Introduction and Setting the Stage
01:26Navigating Stress and Divorce
10:16Adapting to Change and Seeking Community
17:11Understanding Attachment and Emotional Responsibility
22:25Childhood Memories and Creative Expression
24:17The Power of Childhood Memories
26:56Reflection and Learning from the Past
29:40Understanding Personal Growth and Resilience
33:51The Importance of Connection and Community
34:49Finding Creative Outlets
40:28Embracing Emotions and Catharsis
43:10New Chapter
Full Transcript:
Sydney (00:00)
We're Laurel and Sydney and welcome to the Why We Are podcast from the Whole Brain Institute.
This space, we celebrate the stories of those who have navigated life through their unique brains, Your brain is designed just for you and it's the key to your own version of success. We're here to help you celebrate it.
Laurel (00:17)
Olivia, thank you so much for joining us. Everyone, I've known Olivia a while. She has a great smile and energy and I am excited to share time and space with her and Sydney today. So Olivia, welcome.
Olivia (00:33)
Thank you for having me. my gosh, what a fun podcast. I'm about to unload on you guys, but that's what you want. It's gonna be cool, right?
Laurel (00:43)
It's gonna be a lot of things, but yeah, cool.
Sydney (00:46)
Laurel and I really like helping people unpack things and make sense of things that seemingly are all kind of spiraled in your mind.
Olivia (00:54)
I use the word spiral all the time to describe myself because I feel like I'm constantly spiraling. So much so that my friend sent me a meme that said, hey girl, are you a Christmas ribbon? Cause you're spiraling.
Sydney (01:09)
Hopefully today we can take some of the Christmas ribbons and organize them just a little bit.
Olivia (01:16)
I love that. I would love that. That's what I need in my life is a little bit of focus or I don't know what I need. So hopefully, hopefully we'll get to the bottom of something today.
Sydney (01:26)
So for those of you that are new joining us, we've actually sent Olivia three questions. We're gonna help kind of dive into all of her Christmas Ribbon based on those three questions. So I'm gonna go ahead and get us started here. And Olivia, I know you know what's coming, but can you share with some of our listeners, what is something that you have experienced in your life that stressed you out to the point where you really had to adapt to survive it?
Olivia (01:53)
I had to think a lot about this question because of the second part of the question, the adapt to survive. Because I feel like we're all stressed all the time, right? Like there's a constant stress, you're stuck in traffic, bad family call.
But something that was huge to the point that had to like change me to adapt to survive is a different type of stress, right? And so there's really one big event in my life that happened that was like the most stressful thing I've had to deal with, which was divorce, the D word, right? And getting divorced in my early thirties was such a thing, because none of my friends were divorced and friends were still getting married. And it felt very hush hush.
And what was interesting about it is that I tell people the actual day of the divorce and the asking about the divorce in the post divorce was not the stressful part. That was the freeing part. The part that was stressful was the months before that I wasn't telling anybody that I knew it was coming. I doubted every day, is this what's going to happen? What's going to happen next? Like, is this really happening? Maybe he'll change. Like, maybe next month he'll change. I just was in a constant state of stress. So it wasn't like a single day, like a crack of lightning. It was like months of being wound up like a little ball of yarn and not knowing what was going to unravel from it. And I had to learn a lot about myself, I played a lot of like worst case scenario games, like, okay, worst case scenario, I have to go move back in with my parents or do X, Y, Z or like worst case scenario. He's what going to yell at me? Like he hasn't been doing that this whole marriage anyway. Like there's a lot of, a lot of that. So hopefully you guys are ready to unpack, unpack that, divorce, you know, such a big, big thing. It's an icky thing that not a lot of people like to talk about either.
Laurel (03:46)
Yeah, I think you've highlighted really well and put words to what we see that when stress becomes so big that it overwhelms our brain's just natural capacity to keep going. Like you said, the everyday stressors, yeah, we're stressed all the time and maybe we feel tired or our brain's running a little bit too fast at night, that we're used to and a good night's sleep or a workout or laugh with a friend will reset us pretty nicely. But it's that constant build. And oftentimes what I think makes us feel alone is that the part that other people associate being hard, like you said, the day you signed the paper, for you, that wasn't the hardest part. That actually put a timestamp to it, gave you some, okay.
Now next part. And that's also normal. think our brains search for answers. Like Sydney was saying, want to make sense of things. And in that period where we don't know what's up or down, what's right or wrong, it's really hard for our brains to do that. And I think a lot of people resonate with that experience.
Yeah, we're ready for you. My follow up question is, I'm just curious, like as you say it now, what do you notice in your body as you share that story or like, are there any other aspects of the memory maybe outside of your head, emotions or body sensations that have your attention?
Olivia (05:21)
Yeah, I would say something in my body that I've actually struggled with a really long time is sleep. When I get sad or when I'm in a state of stress, I have a horrible sleep pattern and it affects my sleep to a point that brings me a lot of like shame actually, because what happens is everything's so quiet at night. know, after midnight, it's so peaceful. No one's in your inbox, it's like 1 a.m. and husband's asleep. So you can kind of like, it's like your own little world that is like yours, you know? And then what happens is I stay up and then I can't wake up in the morning because I've stayed up till like one or two. And then the next morning I cannot get up. So it's like nine, nine, 30, 10. And then I have this shame spiral of like, great, now I'm a loser because I can't get out of bed in the morning. But, you know, so I notice in my body that whenever I am at a point of stress, I start to stay up.
later and later, because I'm avoiding my daytime problem, if that makes sense. But also it caused me to have less time with him because we had differing sleep schedules. Like, he was waking up at eight and I was waking up at 10. He was going to sleep at like 11, and I was going to sleep at like two. So like, I had more time without him. Like, my safe space has always been midnight to 2 a.m.
And I don't want to do that. Like, I don't want that to be my safe space. Like, I want my body to go to sleep and wake up.
Sydney (06:47)
It's always so interesting to me because our brains are hardwired to figure out exactly what we need and they go and get it whether it's good for us or not good for us. And I hear a lot of what was coming up for you is this hyper vigilance of always being aware of everything going on and then needing that reprieve at like midnight 1 2 a.m. Yeah.
Olivia (07:10)
I haven't heard that word, but that's exactly what it felt like is like during the day I was on and the only time I got to be off was that like, blessed time for me. It's like, finally, I'm in my bed and I've got my book, but I don't want to read my book because I want to be on TikTok or I want to scroll. want to have my brain occupied by something else. And that brings me a lot of like stress the next morning for sure.
Laurel (07:35)
we're all guilty of that. And if you aren't, then I'm sorry I lumped you in with all of us. But I think we're all guilty of seeking that temporary feel different versus that long-term, well, I know that if I take 20 deep breaths and actually visualize sleeping, I'd probably go to sleep. accessing that wisdom and knowing when we're really stressed is in a completely different part of our brain.
It's really hard. I mean, I say this a lot. It's unrealistic to expect that we access what we can do in our therapist's office very easily out on the street when someone cuts us off in traffic. Then I'm very quick to anger because the environment cues so much of what is accessible to our brains. And you got in a habit and pattern.
And then that becomes easier to replicate. And so the shift takes work and it takes training our brain often to orient or see different cues. We really get a lot of what like led to the next thing is actually cued by non-verbals or environmental stimuli that we end up not even noticing anymore.
Olivia (08:53)
Hmm. Are you saying there is a way to train myself to seek something outside of midnight to 2am? Like, is there a journey to find a way to process not at that time, I guess? It sounds like it would take some training, but it's maybe doable?
Laurel (09:15)
I mean, Syd and I are biased and I immediately want to know what comes up for her, for you, but the short answer is yes. Humans are very trainable.
Olivia (09:24)
Interesting. just feels like it's a different Olivia. Like, you know, like different Olivia kicks in at midnight and she's like, no, stay up.
Sydney (09:33)
Well, and even just seeing the look on your face when you talk about yourself and the Olivia that shows up between midnight and 3 a.m. I want to answer that question like with a hell yeah. We can tap into who she is during the day. And, you know, one thing I keep hearing Laurel say is the environment. I can tell the environment you're in looks different now that you're not in that space that had you very stressed out when you were sharing an environment and being on all the time.
And so at least for me, I want to kind of go back to the second part of that question and that adapt of how did you adapt to survive? And I'm curious, like as you were reflecting on these questions, what came up for you?
Olivia (10:16)
I think what came up is actually a little bit of gratefulness for the now, which is great. Like I've definitely done a lot of healing, but part of the adapting was seeking out community, but I was too scared to tell my friends. I was too scared to tell my family. So I actually found on, which is probably contributing to the midnight problem because I was finding, I was on Reddit threads. my Google searches were how to get a husband to therapy. Why won't husband go to therapy? How long is too long? You know, how long did you stay with, you know, it was, I was, I was doing so much research. So, so much. And so now looking back on it, something that I like advice that I would give to other people is like, you would be surprised. Like you would be so surprised who in your community is ready to talk to you is ready to answer questions for you.
because once I got divorced, like two other people that I knew got divorced, because they were like, we didn't know we could do that. like, you just gotta be, like, if I could go back in time, I would be like, Olivia, go talk to these three people. I promise, like, they're gonna help you and they're not gonna shame you So I would say like the adapting part of that was my secret Google searches and
my desire for research. And so I think like now, even now, like I know where to go to like find resources for stuff, but I'm learning how to also rely on other people.
Laurel (11:38)
your brain is amazing, right? And it just told us it was doing exactly what it needed. It was seeking ways to connect, to process, to get all of your needs met. And it was doing what it had most access to. For many of us, it's the phone. But now in this reflection,
What you're realizing is you found a more adaptive way to get that need met, right? You started talking to your friends, and then your brain relax
And that is kind of the key is instead of looking at what we did as this symptom that is bad, it's how is it a clue? Because within the behavior you're doing, there's a clue to what would be more helpful than that. And yeah, this is why we're like, your brain is so cool and amazing and it was doing what it needed to do. We just weren't interpreting it well.
Olivia (12:30)
Yeah. The other thing I would have a question about is speed. I constantly am thinking like, wow, I stayed a lot longer than I should have. Like, why couldn't I figure it out? Why did they see the writing on the wall? why did I go months and months and months with my feet planted when literally outside looking in, if people saw the things that I was dealing with, they would have been like, girl, get out like right now. Because I do feel a lot of times like, great, now I'm 34. wasted, see, there we go. There, I just use the word wasted. it's hard not to feel some sort of negative energy around like, oh, what if I had done it earlier and then I was back in the dating pool earlier and.
It just becomes a spiral.
Laurel (13:11)
Right. Interesting. But actually, like, I want to go back to my spirally thing over here. I said, I feel like I feel like you've got this one.
Sydney (13:19)
Yeah, I mean, I think any questions of timing, I always come back to, we don't know we're wet till we get out of the water. And our brains kind of work the same way as sometimes the parts of us that feel this urge to protect us kind of have like this tight grip on all the ribbon. And until that grip loosens and we can start to connect, right? Cause the opposite for our brain, the opposite of protection is connection.
And sometimes when what we really want is to connect to other people, when we're really gripping those protection ribbons, we can't do that.
Olivia (13:54)
I've never heard that. You don't know you're wet until you're out of water. such a funny expression.
Sydney (13:59)
But the second you get out of that pool, you're like, shit, I'm cold. I know I'm wet. I'm dripping. What just happened? And our brains kind of work the same way too, until we can get that water, that level to come down and we can take a breath. We might not know we're in it.
Laurel (14:18)
And also a lot of times the first initial is like quick get back in the water, it's less cold. like that is not going to help you be dry.
Olivia (14:27)
Mm hmm. I was lucky in that like when I, when I made the decision, like in my gut I was done. but like the months leading up, absolutely. I gave him so many ultimatums. Like it was like every six months I was like, no, this is it for real. So maybe that was my version of getting back in the water of being like, all right, no, this time I mean it, this time I mean it.
My therapist kept like, kept feeling guilty. Like, did I not give him enough tries? Did I not give him enough time to make changes? My therapist was like, you laid it out literally on paper that he needed to do one, two, three to make you happy and to work toward a healthy relationship. And did he do those things? I was like, well, it's only been...
been like six months and she's like, Nope, has he put any building block into place to work on those three things? And that was also really challenging. The like introspection of like,
Am I crazy? Is this how all relationships are? And I just don't know.
Laurel (15:18)
think not only that, but well, there's a couple of things. One is that when we talk about attachment, so that's siblings, parents, significant others, kids, that part of our brain is also called the mammalian brain. And it looks identical really to any other mammal. And so one of the things when it comes to attachment, we're in a more primitive survival part of our brain.
that really prioritizes the basics of survival. Food, water, shelter, for most, many mammals, that's the pack. Like we feel much safer not alone and humans fall into that. So when you say like, didn't I leave? Because the thing that you were in wasn't going to kill you.
a lot of the parts of our brain prioritize success or like rank success of like dead not dead. Which way is a higher likelihood to keep us alive? Okay, that one feels good to us. It doesn't care if we're happy. It doesn't care if we do well at work. doesn't now, you know, money maybe like starts linking to basic survival, but for your situation like it that wasn't in it. So
we often say you have to have something more adaptive to go in the place of what it is. And so I think for you, there was this shift once you realized being done with the marriage didn't mean you would be alone. Your brain could see that that piece of what probably felt threatening on some sort of more basic or cellular level wasn't actually a big threat.
It was potential, but not something worth staying miserable, staying stuck for.
Olivia (17:11)
Do you know the biggest thing though that I kept telling my therapist about like why I wasn't leaving? It wasn't actually even about me for a lot of the time. It was that I didn't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt somebody. And I actually recently just had another breakup for someone I dated post divorce and I kind of delayed it a little bit because I was like, it's just going to hurt him so So I wonder how that factors into that mammalian, like, cause like, I was like, I know I'll be fine. I have so many friends, like, you know, I'm strengthening my family every day, but I was like, I just can't hurt another person. I wonder how I can like get away from that so that I can be stronger in the future.
Sydney (17:48)
when we talk about attachment, it starts as early as in utero, right? So our attachment with our mom starts in the womb and there's so much that goes into it. And throughout our lives, we kind of have these different parts that develop different truths that they hold onto. And I'm hearing like, there might be a part that really believes that you might be responsible for other people's emotions.
and how other people feel. And as we get older and wiser and do a little bit of work on ourselves, we start to realize that that's just not true. And so it might be like, there's a part of your brain that really wants to hold on to that belief because you care so much. And I mean, the time I've spent with you, can tell you really care about the people you work with and the people that get to be in your life. there is a way to hone in on that part of you without it being so controlling because ultimately we're not responsible for other people's emotions.
Laurel (18:46)
I wonder, Olivia, how much of like one of your coping survival skills was you're creative, you're smart. I can figure out a way to get out of this and avoid hurting or like, I figure this problem out.
Olivia (19:06)
Yeah, I did a lot of that for sure. for the longest time I was like, I'll just ignore it. It'll be fine. We'll just live separate lives. And that is when I was my most creative. If you go look at my TikTok, I was posting a TikTok every other day because I would wake up scurry past him, go into my office and just throw myself into work. I mean, yeah, that was my most profitable year. Like I had, went viral a couple of times on like reels and TikToks. And it's because I was avoiding something else. Like I knew that I was like, this creativity is coming from a place of trying to fix another part of my life.
And then for the breakup that I had recently, it took me months. Like I was like, oh my gosh, how do I get out of this? Like, I don't think I'm happy, but let me try to problem solve it first. So that's very like nail on the head. Like, yeah, I tried to get creative and tried to see if there's anything else I could do.
to help lessen the emotional impact. But then also, I think my therapist was leading me to this place that I also worried do I have a martyr complex? Like, they're gonna be so devastated when I, know, and part of me was like, Olivia, actually, like his world doesn't revolve around you, he's gonna be fine.
Is that the right word? Martyr complex? This like, martyring of like, finally he'll be miserable. Like, no, you have to trust that he'll be fine too, I guess.
Laurel (20:26)
I don't know, I'm hearing more again. This is another way that your brain found a really adaptive, rewarding way to navigate stress. And it was literally profitable for you.
And I think there's a bit for women, especially too, it's like, instead of owning like, I totally avoided my husband for a year and it was my best year of business. It's like, but like we don't wanna own that space. So then you back out and you like, well, I didn't wanna hurt. So I'm always curious, like what's the narrative that we think people wanna hear and then like, what's the narrative that actually matches the real motivation for us?
and then probably cut yourself a lot of slack because the narrative for others is totally socially constructed based on what we learned of how we are supposed to survive and fit in outside of our own bodies. And that's probably a topic for an entire other podcast that Sydney and I could do. But for today, I'm kind of back to being like, I love your little creative brain and I can like imagine you now as a little kid, like figuring stuff out. And so we take that into adulthood. You know, that's
That's where we learn these skills. And so they're great skills, but they were not done with like our wholly developed brains. And so when we get stressed, we do tend to revert back to what worked for us in the past. And I mean, this is where I think Syd is like an artist of pulling out these little kid parts and letting them heal and express themselves. you know,
I hear spaces where you were physically creating, which is how we then kind of get out of our head dump. I mean, I think it almost sounds like you were playing your way out of it, which is pretty cool. Syd, I don't know what stood out to you on that one, but I was getting a like, fuse of that. Like the way you play and create or draw, you know, for some people it's drawing, like you said, artists.
Sydney (22:25)
I was hearing a lot of the same things and it's so interesting. And Olivia, I'm really curious. When you were a little girl and you kind of think back on your life, were there any like aspects of your childhood that you can recall like just being so engulfed in what you were doing and just so enjoying the present moment where you could just get lost in it? And if so, like what were you doing?
Olivia (22:50)
well, first of all, I have a hard time talking about my childhood. So that's why I'm like, let's talk about my divorce instead. It's so much easier. I had a pretty normal childhood. Like nothing bad happened, but I was such a painfully awkward child. Like I was like not one of the cute teenagers. Like I was like frizzy, couldn't find my way, I was bigger than all the other kids. just, I just felt so out of my element all the time.
But one of my favorite memories is my sister and I, we owned like, you know, like all kids to like 100 beanie babies, right?
Laurel (23:21)
All kids of a certain age.
Olivia (23:23)
Yeah, yeah. And we had this guest bedroom that my sister and I would set up towns. We had a personality for every single Beanie Baby. They had like we had like a mayor, the baker. And we'd play. Like it was so fun. It really was. We sat there and we were like telling story and we would go a whole day of like playing with each other and like making, creating this like little world. And I kind of still remember I'm like, I think that sheepdog, Beauty Baby was the mayor of the town. Like, I'm trying to remember it. But I remember just being so entranced in that. And then my other fond memories are discovering books, I remember getting my first book that was a part of a series and someone being like, there's a second one and me being like, what, I get to keep reading and like, learning that there's more to consume, like in a in a world's books and that specific memory of my childhood are things that come up
Sydney (24:22)
And it's so interesting to me hearing you talk about your childhood and the reason I love hearing adults talk about their childhood is because it like lights up my play system. I at any given time I've got toys everywhere because I just believe what's the point in growing up? With that what I'm hearing is you created something. That was the default is to take nothing and build a whole town a whole system. and just create. And it's really interesting to me that your brain ran with that and it's pretty much what you do for a living now as an adult.
Olivia (25:00)
Pretty much. I mean, I think it gets to be, and I talk about this with my friends all the time, like where is that line between, now I do it too much. Like now I'm like, now I'm tired because what happens right now, and this is going to be totally off topic just for a a little side tangent now I create so much that I'm out of creative energy at the end of the day. So friends will be like, Hey, can you help me with my invite for my thing? And I'm like, no, no. Like, I'm sorry.
Sydney (25:24)
Well, and that's so interesting, that balance, right? Because the other thing you just told us that you do to get out of your head is to dissociate into a book.
Olivia (25:32)
yeah, I like I dissociate a lot.
Sydney (25:35)
one is so kind of thought heavy and one is like an escape - adaptive for different things.
Laurel (25:41)
And I'm a big believer we each have unique brains. Our brains are the expert in us because they're the only thing that actually has been through everything we've been through, right? Even twins aren't identical brains because they've walked on actual different paths. in your divorce story, like you basically said, I did exactly what worked for me in childhood.
And really it worked. It did get you out. It did get your brain to see something different, to find light, to find what it was looking for. Your question about time, could your brain be more efficient at doing that? Yes. And it will probably take someone else's brain helping shift some pieces around, right? Because the most efficient best way for...
a kid building Beanie Baby towns is probably not the most efficient thing for an adult who has their own money, own apartment, can drive and has friends. that's the power of shifting perspective is just helping your brain see what an amazing, smart, connected human you are how do we get creative and create different ways from point A to B because you have new tools that you didn't have.
Also, you cannot do that in the moment of being stressed. know, that's the point of reflection, I think, is...
When we look back on what we did with a place of awe and validation and like, wow, my amazing little kid, she like rallied again and got me viral on TikTok. Like go her. We see it with a softness, I think that isn't usually there where we can say, you know, in the future when I'm feeling stressed, maybe what I really need to do is pick up the phone and call my best friend. And even if I'm super awkward and I'm like, no, nothing, nothing, nothing's wrong. I know it's like.
called you for no reason. They were like, okay, Olivia, enough, spit it out. And we just like give ourselves permission to like fail kind of forward to try different stuff because we know what we were really looking for. I think one of the most beautiful things about the neuroscience of play is that it creates
It's endorphins, so that's like a pain blocker and there's dopamine, which is like kind of an excitatory high. So it literally makes us feel safe enough to fail and explore and do something that we didn't do before. And that's the beauty of childhood and what we're seeing. you access that and it gave you the courage to decide the thing.
but we might not need it to be drawn out so much the next time. And arguably, no, you're never gonna be in the same situation again because you survived this one. And so you do have more wisdom. But that's, think the trick is finding how what we did is actually inspiring and an example of our resilience versus looking at it with, well, and you do what I do, Lemi, where you're like.
I shouldn't say waste, but your voice even changed. You're like, you're not fully bought in to not using that word. Like,
Sydney (28:46)
that too.
Olivia (28:48)
Because I want to like learn and correct and stuff, but I'm like, no, it was a waste. What were you doing? I remember I turned 30 during this time and I turned 30 on the 30th. Like it was like my 30th, you know, it was like my goal. He gave me for my birthday, for that birthday, a video game that I wanted and he didn't wrap it. He put it in a pizza box, like an empty pizza box that we had used the night before.
Laurel (29:00)
golden birthday or something like that.
Olivia (29:16)
oof and taped it shut and threw it in my hands and said happy birthday. I don't know why you care so much about this birthday. It's just another birthday. And I stayed two years after that!
And so I hope, I don't know if you guys already asked the second question in like a different way, but like what I'm taking from that is that I will never do that again. Like I will never let someone devalue me in that way again.
Sydney (29:40)
And I hear, you know, what you just said is taking all of those. I'm the preface this I'm a huge metaphors person. You'll hear me talking metaphors 90 % of the time. So I'm sticking with this Christmas ribbon because Christmas is just my favorite time.
Olivia (29:55)
I love it. It's visually helpful for me too because it explains what it feels like because I think a lot of my friends don't get I'm very anxious all the time and they're like what and I'm like no it is like a Christmas ribbon. It's exactly like that.
Sydney (30:07)
all the Christmas ribbon in a drawer and the drawer is labeled divorce and all of the Christmas ribbon used to just like you open the drawer and you'd hear like I'm a failure. I'm a failure. I failed. How did I get here? I don't matter. Right. And then we open the drawer and we pull one ribbon out and you start spooling it and you take it and you put it in a different drawer. And now that ribbon is what I just heard that innate wisdom of I learned something from this, it won't happen again. That's our brains making sense of things and reorganizing them, resending them to long-term memory, that there is a way to survive this and store it in a way that really feels authentic and true.
Laurel (30:54)
what's so cool is like that ribbon was never bad. It actually was always kind of cute, but it felt stressful because it was in a knot and it was tangled and it and it reminded you of your worst metaphorical Christmas. And now, though, it's spooled up and it's in your cute ribbon bin or something. And you're like, you know what? This year, this is the perfect ribbon for my friend Laurel. I'm going to wrap her present in that ribbon.
And sharing our experiences, I think is like that. It's like putting a ribbon that used to make us feel icky, but now we're saying like, no, this ribbon is wisdom and it's motivation and it's all these things and I wanna share it. I want you to not be scared of this ribbon either. And so that's like to me the coolest part about people being courageous enough to share pieces of their story is like you said, other people are going through this.
Trauma, which is anything that overwhelms our nervous system, it's too much, makes us feel alone and isolated. It gets us into our own selves to the point where we think like nobody else could possibly see it this way, feel this way. And that's a lie. Trauma is a liar and a thief. And when we realize and share it, people immediately are like, yeah, absolutely. That's exactly how I felt.
I too have a ribbon drawer or you're right, my most profitable year and everyone's giving me all these accolades and I just feel like shit because I've been escaping. And how do I say that to someone like that is valid. That's real. Sydney's heard it in session. I've heard it in session. So, you know, for what it's worth, thank you for like sharing it and being vulnerable enough to like open your ribbon drawer.
Olivia (32:45)
Yeah, I'm really passionate about it. And I wonder, like, I kind of want to get involved. I don't know how to or where to start, but I would love to be an advocate for women getting divorced. I want to be that person to be like, yes, you can do it. Yes, you can. You know, like if you're miserable, like, I don't want to sound like a a like a, I don't know, like a Grinch, guess, to use Christmas metaphors. But I do see some of my friends and some other people who are just flat out miserable. And I can see that each partner is not doing what they need.
I needed to see other examples of other people for myself to get out of it, honestly, which is such a strange, maybe not strange, but like, why did I need to see an example before I myself could do it?
Sydney (33:29)
comes back to that same mammalian brain that Laurel was talking about is we are hardwired to connect. One of the first things Laurel ever told me like seven years ago that just stuck with me was that mammalian moms cuddle their babies. That's why babies are so cute and reptiles eat their young. They are not hardwired to connect.
it's also this like organic, like physiologically on an anatomy level, we're hardwired to connect. And what that means is sometimes we need to see other people and connect with other people to be able to attune to our own internal system.
Olivia (34:07)
Mm-hmm.
Sydney (34:09)
We need to see what's going on in their ribbon drawers.
Olivia August (34:12)
Yeah, I love the ribbon drawer I'm gonna use that now like forever. I did have a question for you too. I am creative, obviously. I like storytelling. I like being involved in something, but I cannot stand crafts
and everyone wants to craft I don't want to, but I don't know the other options for getting out of my head. I was complaining about this with Laurel the other day where like a lot of the like ways to like unwind or like go on a walk, light a candle, do an adult coloring book. And like none of that works for me. And so I'm wondering if you guys have any...
activities that are things for creative people that aren't more work. Like, I don't want more work. I don't want to get the watercolor paper and have to go buy a coloring book and then feel guilty that I only colored in one page. what do you guys recommend for people who need a creative outlet but or am I is this too deep? don't know. No.
Laurel (35:09)
What you're saying is like the prescriptive nature of American society and like the go-to list isn't good for you, doesn't work.
Olivia (35:16)
It is? Yeah, exactly. It's like, I don't need a craft. don't want to craft. I I will craft with my friends if my friends are listening. I hope they don't.
Laurel (35:23)
Yeah, but that's because you like your friends. Like, I like to do things with my daughter because she brings, like, they're joyful to her and that brings me joy that I would never ever do on my own or with you.
Olivia (35:36)
Yeah, like my best friend is a knit like she knits and she makes all her own clothes and she does yarn and she's like, I need that. Like I crave it every day. And I'm like, I don't crave, don't crave that. I'm just curious, like when I do get tangled, when I am a tangled little ribbon, right now I've just been, I feel like I've just been flailing around. Like I don't really know what's working when I get stressed. Like I try to go on a walk, I try to go on a run, but I'm not really sure how I'm doing it right now.
Sydney (36:01)
for me, you know, just in my own experiences in my own life, the opposite of being like in my head and here is being connected to what's down here. And can I find a way to bridge the two? And we're really only limited by our own sense of creativity. So if the norms are do some doodling, paint a picture, go for a walk. If those don't fit, we just try something else.
You know, one of the things I do is I'll go downstairs and I'll pull like six to 10 ingredients out of my fridge and my cupboard. What can I make with this? Right? What cocktail can I make with what's in the house? And I have to get creative with it. Or can I go outside and lock myself outside for 20 minutes and find something to do? Whether it's pull weeds, plant flowers, go for a walk. I,
tried to paint my mailbox once, but my HOA was really unhappy about it, so that wasn't a super helpful thing to do, but it got me thinking.
Olivia (37:00)
I think cleaning has actually been helping me a little bit. Like I'll pick a room and I'll try to say this room is my project now. So I'm not cleaning it, but this room I'm going to figure out how to make it feel better. like walking has been helping, but I find that there's like a click in my brain. Like I have to walk at least like 20 minutes to feel this like click of like, okay, now you've just disconnected. And then this sounds, it sounds so stupid, but I'm like too busy for 20 minutes. know, I'm like, ah, Olivia, like, golly, I just wish there was like a five minute thing that I was like, I can go do this five minute thing and then I'll feel better. But I think that the bigger answer is that I had to find larger, sustainable ways to feel calm or to feel back to center. I guess like it's systemic.
rather than like, if I'm craving five minute changes, then there might be other things that I need to work on, I guess.
Laurel (37:52)
Well, I think that's your pattern. You do like quick dopamine spikes, which is not bad. It's very normal. You know, I I kind of laugh because when I'm feeling antsy, sometimes what I need to do is instead of calm down, it's like I need to just say like, fuck as loud as I can, like eight times. And then I'm like, all right, I feel a lot better. And like actually yelling
the F word has like at least eight times has been shown to decrease pain, like perception of pain. I felt very validated when my husband sent me that article and I'm like, see, I've been using this practice forever in sports, getting in trouble. But I think there is this sometimes when we feel stuck, we need a cathartic release and like that's crying, that's laughing, that's screaming, that's.
I mean, there's other way less adaptive ways that people use catharsis, but I often think about that. Am I trying to keep everything stuffed in or am I trying to let go of something? And if I need to let go of something, then maybe what I wanna do is just scribble black. What do you call it? Scribble it out? Yeah, like sometimes I just wanna scribble it out and then I wanna throw that piece of paper in the garbage. And it feels really nice to just throw something in the garbage.
And so I think sometimes approaching it, am I trying to replenish or am I trying to let go of? oftentimes just answering that helps give me the next idea. patterns are great, but when patterns stop working to Sydney's point, like it's time to look at it in a different way.
Sydney (39:33)
and what's adaptive to you. doesn't have to make sense to anybody else. So Laurel might scream the f-word and I will go in my kitchen and blast emo music because it makes me happy and I will have a five-minute dance party to a song that makes me sound really unhappy, but it brings me so much joy.
Laurel (39:51)
Syd's music taste is like one of my favorite things I ever learned about her.
Olivia (39:55)
So funny. would not have imagined. If you had given me 10 guesses, I would not have said.
Laurel (40:00)
No, it's great. And like, she's all in on the dancing. She's not kidding about that. There's a new, maybe I need to send to both of you as like your thank you for the podcast. There's a new like thing and it's just 30 second dance party and it's a button and you just walk by and you hit it. And the ad I saw was a guy in like a very professional suit and he hits it and then he's like dancing and then he like 30 seconds is over and he walks off.
Olivia (40:29)
The thing you told me last week, Laurel, was when I was telling you I was trying to calm down. Like, I'm doing the walks. I'm doing the candle. And you were like, don't calm down. Go get mad. Be angry. Go do something. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm allowed to do that? Like, what? Like, I think I feel so much shame from, of being like, oh, don't be too angry. Calm down. Stop crying. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's a whole other like childhood thing to unpack. But I think it's really helpful to know like...
Maybe I will scribble on a paper and throw it away. Like maybe I will, like, but the environment, no, Olivia, just scribble on the paper and throw it away. Like it's fine. No one has to see your artwork. You don't have to have this book of completed scribbles at the end. Like you could just do a thing to do the thing.
Sydney (41:10)
Well, and your brain got you here, right? In its own uniqueness. And it's okay to trust it.
Laurel (41:16)
We as a society like to put either the best or the worst out there. And the middle of the road, mundane days, we're like, I don't know if I thought about anything besides coffee, work, coffee, bed. That's also really typical. And in a week,
Can I cover the stuff that I wanted to or in a month? Did I get enough friend points, enough work points to feel like the month is balanced? A balanced day is a wonderful idea that hopefully happens to you occasionally, but a balanced week or a balanced month, like those are much more maintainable and realistic goals.
Olivia (42:00)
I like that. I'm such a now person. It's helpful for me to think about it in terms of a month.
I feel good. I've learned some things.
Laurel (42:09)
Well good. I had fun hearing about you as a kid and mayor sheep or
Olivia (42:16)
Yeah. And it's, need to text my sister and be like, I talked about our, Beanie Baby Village podcast today. She's going to go, yeah.
Laurel (42:24)
It's interesting, like my mom saved some of our Beanie Babies and my daughter found them and she's like, but why do I have the tags on them? That started the whole conversation of like, they were not in like plastic covers or anything, but yeah, Beanie Babies.
Olivia (42:46)
Beanie Babies.
Sydney (42:47)
absolutely nothing and I thought they'd be worth this.
Olivia (42:51)
Yeah, we were all sure these are going to be your retirement like this is going to be huge someday.
Sydney (42:56)
The 50 cent ones from McDonald's that had a grip on us.
But as I digress really, Olivia, thank you for coming and sharing your story and opening that drawer and helping us all kind of make sense of some of these ribbons.
